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Sail Making - preperations Options
Zeptrader
#1 Posted : 01 May 2010 10:59:36

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As im close to deciding on sails for my Bounty I though I'd share here some ideas.
When I got the Bounty (Del Prado) they supplied 2 sheets of material with pre printed outlines of each sail, nice but the material is/was far too thick, at least after searching for information on model sail making.
Some years ago ideas poped up regarding type's of material to use, they varied from thin tissue paper (if furled) to linen. I really had no idea but one thing that was needed was a material that was thin enough and coud be furled, Furled sail are sail pulled up around the yards.

Furled sails in progress on Bounty


I then discovered that many shipwrights used Egyptian Cotton, where to get this was a nightmare. I decided to use the sheets supplied as templates for the Bounty but have then half furled, some models look outstanding with no sails some look too busy with full sails, you cant see all those rigging lines ect. So my decision was to go half furled. With Mckays book at hand and the supplied sail sheets pre printed it was then to think about the thread to use and how much detail.

I found a wonderful web site just last night that sells not only Egyptian Cotton Saicloth but the egyptian cotton as well, sorted, and to be honst the price aint that bad, even the wife was getting involved (now thats a bonus when more money is to be spent)


Ive ordered Standard pack 36 inch x 45 inch Priced at only £ 3,50 per pack of the Sailcloth, below is a short description. -
This has now become our standard sailcloth and is a superb fine woven cloth very similar in appearence to the draughting cloth of many years ago. It is a strong yet easy to work material being made from 100% Egyptian cotton that is considered by many to be one of the finest material available. Sold in our standard pack size or for those requiring very large sails we sell a double pack of this fine material.

and the cotton -
EGYPTIAN COTTON - RC10 0.2MM X30M £ 1.50
Egyptian cotton is noted through out the world as one of the finest materials available. We are proud to be able to offer our customers this fine material for modelling purposes. All the following threads are 100% Egyptian cotton and are in there natural unbleached colour. This material is over 30 years old and its quality has to be seen to be beleived. This material is renowned for its quality and was long thought to have disappeared, luckily the company that supplies us has found this treasure hiding in there stock room. We have now bought the total stock to secure this material for modellers the world over.

I know what I want to achive and hope to add some pictures when I start but this little post is to show that the kits sailcloth maybe to heavy and thick, its worth spending some time thinking how you want your model to look, for me the Victory needs to show off the rigging, so if all goes well with half furled sail then I'll go the same way with the Victory.
Just to point out when you remake the sail and are going down the furled line you need to make the new sail a little smaller, as you gather then o the yard too much material with bunch up and look odd.
I also wanted some thin natural hemp for various areas around the Bounty, I got this from ebay, 30 M spool 0.5 3 ply natural hemp cord at 1.99.

this is the we site in question, bookmark it, its superb -
http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/1.html

and of course ship modelling for dummies show what can be done -



http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa172v.html
Mike Turpin
#2 Posted : 01 May 2010 11:55:40

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You have done it again Colin!

The website you have linked to seems to be a veritable goldmine of parts.

Cornwall Model Boats are good because they sell the direct replacements for the commercial kits but when I looked for some fine chain, the best they could do was 19 links /inch. This site goes down to 42 links/inch and has very keen prices!

I am making progress with HMS Halifax, the windlass is almost ready for mounting and other deck features are in place, but the sails are obviously still some way off.

I shall certainly be drawing up a list of miscellaneous chandlery supplies.

Before I do, will you let us know how you get on with the Egyptian sailcloth? I spent a long time when I was building the hull of Bounty watching TV and labourously hand sewing the seams in the set of sails. I need convincing to start again! However Halifax will nedd sails before Bounty and they still exist as a piece of plain cloth and a set of paper patterns.

Mike T
jonny7england
#3 Posted : 01 May 2010 13:03:48

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Hi shipmates, I too built the bounty and the sail material supplied certainly did not seem fit for purpose! I intend to build Victory along the lines that she would look just prior to going into battle..i.e under full sail, but I intend to display the completed model in such a way that sail, rigging and other features of interest will be in full view..I have noted the Egyptian material and will be giving this some serious thought..thanks for the lead on that Zeptrader, I have never heard of the material before before today..ThumpUp
Current Builds: Deagostini HMS Victory: Deagostini HMS Sovereign of the seas. Completed Builds: Del Prado: HMAS Bounty: Hachette: RMS Titanic: Del Prado: Cutty Sark...
Zeptrader
#4 Posted : 01 May 2010 13:37:29

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Mike, yes that 42 LPI chain is a good find, I tried to order the black but were out of stock, I do have the same but in copper.
Soon as it arrives I'll give you some thoughts:)
dtgray
#5 Posted : 01 May 2010 14:32:16

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Another excellent link Colin ... thanks BigGrin I've saved it for later, who knows, when the time comes, maybe I'll change my mind and add sails to my Victory after all BigGrin
Regards,

David

nwexplorer
#6 Posted : 01 May 2010 17:31:53

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Great site.
Dontshootme
#7 Posted : 01 May 2010 20:39:50

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I noticed the various types of chain as well,although I havent actually built mine yet I have been inspired by the various cannon bashes,what lpi would anyone recommend for the cap key chain.I liked the greenstuff idea but had already thought of trying chains but not really sure of scale tbh..was thinking of a cheap chain from argos..ie necklace/bracelet till I saw the chains on the site.
Any advice verry gratefully recieved
Rob Nolli Illigitimi Carborundum!!!
Current Builds:HMS Victory,SV Thermopylae
Zeptrader
#8 Posted : 01 May 2010 21:07:28

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Hi Rob, I bought the 42LPI chain just t see if the size would work on the connons, if it is stil to big hen I could use it elsewhere, but it does look small so maybe it would work. Im not sure if you could pick anything up at argos smaller, worth a look thought.

As soon as mine arrives (Keith from modelling timbers told me wednesday) I will post my thoughts.
Mike Turpin
#9 Posted : 01 May 2010 21:21:32

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Dontshootme wrote:
I noticed the various types of chain as well,although I havent actually built mine yet I have been inspired by the various cannon bashes,what lpi would anyone recommend for the cap key chain.I liked the greenstuff idea but had already thought of trying chains but not really sure of scale tbh..was thinking of a cheap chain from argos..ie necklace/bracelet till I saw the chains on the site.
Any advice verry gratefully recieved


I went onto the Cornwall Boats site and bought some of their 1 mm chain which is 19links/inch and have tried it on my cannon

Victory - Leeds build

I think it doesn't look bad, better than the green stuff stuck on the side(sorry Stedders) but still out of scale.

So I may well get some of the 42 link/inch which is more than twice as fine and I would imagine it would be pretty good. Looking forward to hearing from Zeptrader when he gets his and then should be able to rework my cannon a bit. If they have the black in stock that would be good although I do have some blackening fluid which I could try if only copper in stock.

Mike T
Zeptrader
#10 Posted : 01 May 2010 21:26:53

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I'll keep you informd Mike, but the black was sold out yesterday, send him an email and ask when some more come in. Since its so small and only a little will be used each side of the cannons maybe a blob or two of enamal paint could do the trick?
For me I am going the un painted route and a copper colour would work for me.
Mike Turpin
#11 Posted : 01 May 2010 22:12:17

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I know what you are saying, but if I have to get copper I will try to blacken it with my jungle juice.

Mike T
budgie
#12 Posted : 01 May 2010 22:21:29

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Mike Turpin wrote:
I know what you are saying, but if I have to get copper I will try to blacken it with my jungle juice.

Mike T

good idea jungle juice
mines a double cheers
(ps thanks for ure contributions to the forum interesting & informative comments wishing my brain cell has a mate)
Zeptrader
#13 Posted : 02 May 2010 00:28:38

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Ive had an email from Keith at Modelling Timbers who has said the 42 PLI is the smallest chain that is commercialy available and he is looking at possibilitys of getting 53 or 54 LPI.

Quote:
When you get your chain I do not think that you will be disapointed as it is beautifully made. All my components are made by specialist engineering concerns within the EEC, I do not by from out side Europe.


Quote:
Yes I shall be getting more blackened chain in stock though I can't give a firm date on delivery for this.
budgie
#14 Posted : 02 May 2010 00:51:09

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BigGrin
nice input to the forum thank u
Zeptrader
#15 Posted : 02 May 2010 13:01:10

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Just some more information to add to this post regarding the colour of the sailcloth.
I asked if the cloth and cotton could be dyed? not knowing if the material would be white?

Quote:
The cloth is not white but a light cream in colour and this is totally natural. The same applies to the rigging cords and as they are in there natural colour they can easily be dyed or stained. In fact a customer of mine has just stained some to suit the grab lines on his lifeboats on a ferry he is building. They were simply stained with tea and coffee and have worked very well.


Tea & Coffee it is then:)

I also asked about wood, he had some comments on his site concering wood, unfortunatly Keith no longer supplies wood due to various reasons, but I have a link up my sleve when I bought some nice wood a few years ago, and the price wa pretty good, thats for another post.

As is Draw plates, another post:)

BenE
#16 Posted : 02 May 2010 13:05:40

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This is great thanks!

I wander if admin could create a sticky post and inside update with important threads liek this, this way come a year from now when we probably reach this stage it will be easy to navigate!

(I got like 6 bookmarked topics on this forums so far for future ref and the way its going i could have 100's near the end of it lol :D
Zeptrader
#17 Posted : 05 May 2010 18:18:04

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Just got in from work and I have that said parcel, 2 packs of Egygtian natural Sailcoth,quality is just superb, a very fine tight weave (like I know bad!)off white as well. The cotton is 0.2mm x 30m and looks superb s well.
Keith also adde FOC some clear nylon thread 0.018mm x 100m.
Now the chain, jeez, its small:) Giveme till Ive had y dinner ad I'll tae a picture witha 5p next to it. but its small and perfect for the chain on the cannons I reckon, thi is 42 LPI @ £3.50, he didnt have any black left so copper it was, as its so small I dont think it would matter if I painted it.

Sailcloth thought, quality cloth, really it is, 36" x 45" for £3.50, you cant go wrong, I may even get more just in case the Victory sails material is naff (hope not) but you never know.
Zeptrader
#18 Posted : 05 May 2010 20:57:22

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As promised here are a few pictures, the first one shows side by side the Egyptian Sailcloth against Del Prado's. Along with the cotton.




Hopefully you can see this a bit closer, no contest really.


And now the 42LPI chain against a 5p. I'm telling you this chain is small, damn my fingers have trouble with it.
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